The primary 12 months of turning into a father or mother is a rollercoaster of feelings, from terror to pure pleasure and all the things in between. You’ll be able to’t sleep, you don’t have time to eat and also you go from laughing to crying in mere seconds. However in the long run it’s all price it, as a result of like each proud father or mother, your podcast’s achievements change into your individual.
Nope, that wasn’t a typo. We’re speaking a few completely different type of child — one you’ll be able to obtain on iTunes.
That’s proper, of us, the Call to Action podcast simply turned one, and we’re celebrating as many others have celebrated their first birthday: by diving headfirst right into a volleyball-sized cupcake. (I want!)
Be part of me, Unbounce’s Multimedia Producer, Stephanie Saretsky (a.ok.a. Beansie), and Content material Strategist Dan Levy as we chat concerning the classes discovered throughout the podcast’s first 12 months, together with how dang difficult it’s to measure the worth of a podcast and why not all concepts are good concepts. On prime of that, we chat about what’s to return for season two, and the way you can get entangled.
Season 1 highlights:
- Cracking the iTunes ranking algorithm — rating first in Advertising and marketing, first in Enterprise and fourth in all the iTunes retailer.
- Studying that it was Aaliyah and never Future’s Youngster that taught us to “…mud [ourselves] off and take a look at once more.”
- Answering the massive query: Are you extra of a Tom Haverford or a Ron Swanson?
Take heed to the podcast
Talked about within the podcast
Learn the transcript
Stephanie: That is type of a particular episode. As you realize, I’m Stephanie Saretsky. I’m the host of Name to Motion. However with me, I’ve our content material strategist, Dan Levy.
Dan: Hey, Stephanie.
Stephanie: How’s it going, Dan?
Dan: It’s going fairly properly. We don’t often discuss to one another, can we?
Stephanie: No, I often type of simply introduce you after which allow you to interview all of our superior friends.
Dan: After all, the key is that you’re within the room subsequent to me after I interview these friends, so it’s not like we don’t really discuss in actual life.
Stephanie: It’s true. Behind the scenes, we’re really all the time collectively.
Dan: Loopy.
Stephanie: So right now, we thought it could be enjoyable as a result of it’s been one complete 12 months since we launched the Name to Motion podcast. It first went reside final January 28, which was a Wednesday. So we thought it could be enjoyable to get collectively and chat about what went properly, what didn’t go so properly and what we’re enthusiastic about doing for this 12 months.
Dan: Yeah, it’s alternative to take a step again and to additionally look forward. And naturally, a giant a part of that’s to get your suggestions on what you’ve loved and what you suppose we might do higher, and what you’d wish to see for the remainder of the 12 months and past that. So we hope that you just’ll take pleasure in this stroll down reminiscence lane. We hope there may also be some worthwhile classes and insights for you in easy methods to launch a podcast and all the things from rating on iTunes, to easy methods to get friends, to easy methods to deal with your friends.
One factor that’s been I feel an enormous success thus far is that we’ve had quite a lot of friends on, who’ve come to us later and stated that they actually loved the expertise and asking us how we handle issues on our finish in order that they may be sure to offer their friends nearly as good an expertise on their podcast. In order that’s been an enormous win for us and we hope to share a few of that love.
Stephanie: Yeah, it’s undoubtedly one thing that we’ve been attempting to unfold consciousness of since podcasting type of exploded within the advertising world final 12 months. So from posts on our weblog to only well-crafted episodes each week, it’s one thing that Dan and I are attempting to essentially convey, a wonderful product. So once more, any suggestions can be appreciated. You’ll be able to all the time contact us at podcast.unbounce.com.
Dan: So speaking about after we launched, convey me again. Why did we launch a podcast once more?
Stephanie: So that is type of humorous. One thing that Unbounce does each quarter is a ShipIt Day. And I’m positive in case you work at a tech startup, you’re in all probability considerably accustomed to the idea. So it’s two days, and in the future you spend planning what initiatives you’re going to work on, after which the second day you ship it. So the advertising staff determined that we have been going to do our personal ShipIt Day as a result of at that time within the firm’s historical past, we weren’t actually concerned and ShipIt Day was one thing that the dev groups extra did on their very own, which has since modified. However our advertising supervisor on the time thought it could be enjoyable for us to attempt to do it ourselves.
Dan: It’s humorous you point out our advertising supervisor on the time. That’s Corey, and he really performs a fairly vital half within the genesis of the podcast. I is likely to be skipping forward right here, however one of many causes we did launch a podcast, earlier than we get to the precise KPIs and all the things, one of many causes, to be completely trustworthy, was as a result of Corey advised us that he didn’t have time to learn our weblog, and that he didn’t actually wish to learn. And so if any person might simply communicate our weblog put up to him into his ear each morning, he’d be a cheerful camper. And that was really the seed of the Name to Motion podcast.
Stephanie: Yeah, as a result of the Unbounce weblog is one thing that’s been like a flagship at Unbounce because it was began. I got here from the radio world so I had a background in audio. And since I began at Unbounce, I used to be like, okay, a podcast can be one thing that I would love to do and type of throwing round concepts. After which Dan, after we had this ShipIt Day concept, he was like: “Hey, okay, so Corey doesn’t wish to learn. Why don’t we attempt to put collectively a podcast the place we’re really synthesizing in style weblog posts of ours?” And I used to be like: “Candy, that’s superior; that’s a brilliant concise concept.”
We’ve an enormous financial institution of actually superior posts that we will pull from and it must be pretty straightforward editing-wise as a result of there’s not quite a lot of put up manufacturing that must be performed. So Dan referred to as up Elizabeth Martsen, who on the time was at Portent, Inc. as their PPC supervisor. And she or he had written a very superior put up for us about evaluating PPC to on-line relationship, which was actually enjoyable. So she was tremendous superior. She was like: “Yeah, I’ll completely do it.” She was capable of do it inside the subsequent three days. So it was tremendous quick. We bought the interview performed, lower and edited.
After which we introduced the episode to our staff, and it went very well. So we have been like, okay, I feel this must be an precise factor. So this was in October, I imagine. After which we proceeded to interview six different individuals. We did that in a span of two weeks.
Dan: And that was one among my faults. I proceeded to go on my honeymoon for a month to Thailand. And so I used to be like, yeah, let’s do that podcast factor, and I’m leaving for a month. So we rushed to do six interviews actually shortly, after which I stated to Stephanie: “Have enjoyable.” And after I bought again, like a little bit, properly wrapped current, they have been all edited and able to go, which was superior.
Stephanie: Yeah. In order that was actually – yeah, quick paced however it was actually good. We had some actually superior first contributors. After which on the identical time, I spent the time placing collectively the launch temporary. So presently in Unbounce, we had about eight of us on the advertising staff so we have been nonetheless within the occasion the place I’d put collectively a short, and I’d ship it to our advertising supervisor. After which we’d have a gathering and discuss all of the methods, whether or not we hit the important thing factors after which he would ship it again to me, after which I’d iterate on it. After which we’d lastly get to the final iteration of the temporary.
Initially, we had wished to launch firstly of January as like a brand new 12 months, new podcast factor. Nonetheless, it grew to become clear, due to the tempo that we needed to document a bunch in order that we might launch with a specific amount, and we’ll get to that later. And simply the scale of the launch that this mission was going to ivolve, that the primary of January wasn’t going to be possible for us. So we ended up transferring it to January 28 and the remaining is historical past.
Dan: Yeah, after all after we launch any piece of content material advertising at Unbounce, we attempt to not begin – on this case, we did notably wish to do a podcast however we do attempt to begin with a objective. And in addition to getting Corey to take heed to our weblog, remind me what was the objective on that temporary that we got down to accomplish?
Stephanie: The preliminary objective had two objectives. The first objective was consciousness. We actually wished this podcast to achieve a brand new viewers. And the way in which that we noticed this occurring was via the iTunes retailer. So immediately, the most important factor for us was to get into the New and Noteworthy part in iTunes and to rank within the prime 10 in iTunes. In order that was big. So I spent a whole month researching on how to do this.
And I’ll allow you to in on a little bit secret: it was so arduous – or at the least a 12 months in the past, it was so arduous – to seek out any definitive factors on easy methods to do properly in iTunes. There’s a lot conflicting data. iTunes is infamous for having that stuff on lockdown. Like you’ll be able to’t do key phrases anymore, there’s no –
Dan: You thought the Google algorithm and one thing like Google high quality rating was arduous to unpack; wait ’til you encounter the thriller of iTunes.
Stephanie: Yeah, and there’s a lot conflicting data. So one factor that individuals say is large is ranking velocity; so what number of stars or critiques you get. In order that’s one factor. So attempt to get as many critiques and as many stars as you’ll be able to. Try to get as many individuals downloading as many episodes on the identical day as potential. So obtain pace, so launching with greater than three. Some individuals say one is ok; some individuals say you want at the least 5.
Some individuals say that you need to be posting your podcast as soon as a day; some persons are like as soon as per week. Initially, we had thought we’d do biweekly however then we determined to go for per week simply in case this obtain velocity was an enormous deal. And we discovered that on the time, we did have sufficient in our financial institution and sufficient capability to supply as soon as per week.
Dan: That’s one of many causes we each recorded a bunch of episodes proper off the bat was in order that we might launch with a number of episodes. And likewise one of many causes that we did go for the MVP — the minimal viable product — we determined that it was vital to maintain it as lean as potential. So we interviewed weblog authors and restricted the scope of the podcast initially to individuals who we had interviewed on the weblog, who we had a relationship with, and that there was a put up that we might simply write some questions round and leap proper into the content material. Quite than creating completely recent content material, doing recent reporting, for instance. That might have added to our workload.
Stephanie: And so that is the place one thing that type of is available in stats-wise is fascinating and one thing that we’ll unpack a little bit bit afterward is as a result of we have been so involved with our rankings velocity, our obtain pace and simply getting as many individuals to take heed to it as potential, when it got here time to launch, we put quite a lot of effort into an electronic mail marketing campaign, a social marketing campaign. And actually, despite the fact that the principle objective was consciousness and getting it to a brand new viewers on reflection we have been really launching to our present viewers, and we have been actually banking on additionally hooking the those who have been studying our weblog and being like: “Hey, it is a put up that you just appreciated; right here is an episode.”
We’re going to go extra in-depth on this put up. You’re going to listen to a little bit bit of latest data from the creator’s mouth. And in order that was one thing that we have been banking on in order that we might have a very superior launch.
Dan: It’s a little bit of the rooster and the egg situation as a result of we would have liked that essential mass of individuals listening to our podcast immediately with the intention to rank within the iTunes retailer and attain that new viewers. And with the intention to do this, we needed to leverage our current viewers. So it wasn’t good as a result of we have been advertising to current leads, however we did get our podcast rating actually shortly, which we hoped and we predict did attain a complete slew of Coreys on the market who don’t learn the weblog however who wish to take heed to podcasts.
Stephanie: And launch day was superb. We shortly went to primary in advertising. We went to primary in enterprise, and we have been at quantity 4 in all the iTunes retailer after This American Life, Serial and –
Dan: Radio Lab.
Stephanie: No, it was Invisibilia, the brand new NPR podcast. Which is, in case you’re a podcast fan – and I’m positive you’re in case you’re listening to this episode proper now, like that’s big. Dan and I have been freaking out.
Dan: These are the three largest podcasts on this planet –
Stephanie: Ever.
Dan: – and quantity 4 was us.
Stephanie: It was superior. I nonetheless have that screenshot and I simply take a look at it after I really feel unhappy. Yeah. In order that was nice. We had an incredible launch and yeah.
Dan: Yeah, the launch was actually thrilling. After all, we wished to then preserve our momentum going, and we quickly realized that the format that we had initially launched with was limiting in some methods, proper?
Stephanie: Sure. As a result of despite the fact that we launched with this MVP, as a result of it meant that it was constant, it was slim and we might do quite a lot of it shortly, which is vital in case you’re doing a weekly present; it needs to be considerably straightforward for the producer, which is myself, to truly edit it and have the ability to do all my different work. It quickly grew to become obvious that it was limiting in what we might really take into consideration. And likewise, initially, just like the very, very first iteration of the podcast, we have been attempting to advertise one other core piece of content material that we had simply printed, which was our advertising glossary. So we have been beginning each episode with a definition, learn by our cofounder, Oli Gardner, of a advertising time period that may then be featured within the precise interview itself.
Dan: Yeah. So we have been enthusiastic about that concept. A number of the suggestions that we bought was that individuals didn’t essentially see the connection between that phrase after which the interview afterwards. They thought that it was filler, or it was only a roadblock on the way in which to the interview, which is what they actually wished to get at. And so we shortly – I don’t know, how lengthy have been we doing that for?
Stephanie: We did that for at the least two to 3 months, really. I feel we moved onto our second format change in about Could.
Dan: Yeah, I feel as soon as we realized that it was even a stress for us to seek out phrases that related to the interview, that it was time to cease. That yeah, it was handy within the sense that we have been leveraging current content material and that we have been selling it, however it didn’t fairly work so we moved away from that.
Stephanie: And we simply bought a lot suggestions being like this looks like it’s simply thrown in right here. So we have been like, okay, let’s attempt to give it extra of a narrative as a result of Dan and I each are tremendous taken with podcasts which have quite a lot of story content material. So we have been type of like, okay, how can we make this extra podcast-y, which sounds a little bit bizarre however like how can we make this sound prefer it’s not your typical advertising podcast?
Dan: The podcasters that we have been trying as much as have been these three different podcasts, This American Life, Serial and Invisibilia, Radio Lab — lofty objectives as a result of these are radio professionals who that is their full-time job. However there’s additionally different podcasts which are decrease manufacturing however that basically join with their listeners in possibly a extra private manner and a extra casual manner. And so we wished to make it possible for we have been honoring the custom. As new as it’s, there’s a podcasting custom already and expectations of podcast viewers; we wished to verify we have been honoring these.
Stephanie: However the problem was then additionally ensuring that the interview was actionable on the time.
Dan: Precisely. As a result of one thing that we’ve all the time talked about is that Unbounce content material must be actionable. And in case you learn our weblog posts, they’re tremendous tactical, they’re actually in depth. We actually break down a advertising drawback and easy methods to remedy it. And that’s nice in weblog type. In podcast type, I feel there are limits to it as a result of individuals take heed to podcasts on the fitness center, washing dishes, within the automobile; they don’t essentially have a pen and paper.
They’re not in deep studying mode. They wish to study one thing, they wish to get one thing out of it for positive however it’s not essentially the identical sort of – they’re not searching for the identical sort of content material {that a} weblog reader would. So the problem was easy methods to preserve it actionable with out getting too slowed down into ways and particulars.
Stephanie: And that was one thing that we observed after we have been capable of suss out what made a very good episode final 12 months, was we had a couple of episodes that have been tremendous technical; matters like PPC come to thoughts, the place it’s quite a lot of nice data however pulling that out and making that fascinating to take heed to was troublesome.
Dan: And fascinating for us.
Stephanie: Yeah. I gained’t – by no means thoughts.
Dan: Yeah.
Stephanie: Whereas, say, a few of our actually superior episodes final 12 months, and one which involves thoughts for me is an episode that we did with HubSpot’s Ginny Soskey, which is one among my favourite episodes right now. Was that it was actionable however it additionally was very conversational and also you guys have been really discussing the state of content material advertising and the considered publishing quite a lot of weblog posts, or publishing a little bit weblog posts. However it went past right here was our experiment and that is what we noticed.
Dan: That’s it. As a result of Ginny posted this superb, in-depth report on this weblog publishing experiment that they’d run. And the numbers have been there, and the charts have been there, and it’s only a actually nice put up, however simply recounting that isn’t almost as fascinating as the way in which she impacts it within the put up itself. So we realized that this wasn’t nearly speaking weblog posts, however it was speaking round them and getting a little bit bit deeper into the larger concepts and the larger points behind the posts. So there is likely to be a put up a few weblog publishing experiment, however what’s the interview about?
Effectively, possibly it’s really extra about what is that this content material advertising stuff about? How do you keep on objective whereas nonetheless offering worth to the viewers? That’s a way more fascinating dialog, I feel, to have than charts and numbers, which might get a little bit bit tedious within the verbal type.
Stephanie: Yeah. So it’s simply not as enjoyable, after which it wasn’t as enjoyable for Dan and I. So we discovered that they have been obtained higher by our viewers, however then additionally extra pleasurable for us to truly work on.
Dan: Yeah, and the opposite factor that you just trace at there’s that we moved past simply speaking about our personal weblog posts; simply speaking to authors who had written for our personal weblog. We realized that there’s a complete ecosystem of actually sensible, superb advertising content material on the market and we wished to talk to these authors, as properly. So we began to speak to the HubSpots and the Buffers and actually nice advertising thought leaders who could have printed elsewhere to convey these insights to our viewers.
Stephanie: Really, what are a few of your favourite moments from the final 12 months?
Dan: Good query. One way or the other Parks and Recreation retains arising, and I really didn’t even watch that present till actually not too long ago. One in every of my favourite moments was when Allison Otting from Disruptive Promoting requested me if I used to be extra of a Tom Haverford or a Ron Swanson. And I type of like performed alongside for a little bit bit after which I used to be like, I don’t really know who these characters are. I assumed that was fairly humorous.
Stephanie: Yeah, that was a very good episode. I really had forgotten about that at this level.
Dan: How about you?
Stephanie: I feel one among my favorites… that’s a tough query. Really –
Dan: If at first you don’t succeed…
Stephanie: Oh, yeah. Oh, my gosh, yeah. This was the perfect. Jonathan Dane was on and really, at this level, this has been one among our hottest podcasts as a result of he actually – he can take one thing like PPC and make it sound like probably the most enjoyable factor in all the world. Really in that title was an enormous come round for us. It was one thing like why PPC is rather like Nerf weapons or one thing?
Dan: Proper, PPC as defined via Nerf weapons.
Stephanie: Sure, that was it. It was superior. And so on the very finish, we ended off on this sort of inspirational be aware of like if at first you don’t succeed, mud your self off and take a look at once more. After which –
Dan: I feel I stated – what did I say? I stated one thing like within the sensible phrases of Future’s Youngster?
Stephanie: Yeah, Future’s Youngster. After which Jonathan was like no, no, I feel that’s Taylor Swift. After which – oh, no. Did you say Taylor Swift after which he stated Future’s Youngster? Anyway –
Dan: what he stated – I’ll inform you what occurred. I bought this.
Stephanie: Inform me, Dan.
Dan: So he stated one thing about shaking it off, which is a Taylor Swift reference. What I heard was mud your self off, which after all is Future’s Youngster reference. Nonetheless, Stephanie saved her mouth shut, you realize, like skilled, till she couldn’t take it anymore and she or he set that straight.
Stephanie: Yeah, so it was really Aaliyah.
Dan: We have been each mistaken.
Stephanie: Which was hilarious, after which we really put the tune into the top of the episode and it was, yeah, actually humorous and a very glorious option to finish it. However then I additionally suppose that one among simply the extra pleasurable interviews that we had was after we had our personal Haley Mullen, who’s our group supervisor on the present. And Haley’s hilarious, in case you’ve interacted with the Unbounce Twitter, ever. She’s so humorous and it was only a actually superior interview to supply as a result of listening to you and her discuss was simply enjoyable.
Dan: Yeah, and I spotted speaking to any person that you just do have a earlier relationship with, however you don’t essentially have these particular conversations, they go in actually fascinating, surprising locations.
Stephanie: Additionally one other good one which we did for us, we did our April Idiot’s episode.
Dan: We did, sure.
Stephanie: Which was fairly humorous, really. So often how a Name to Motion episode will get began is that I’ll pull questions from a put up after which Dan will edit them to be in his personal voice. After which we’ll really interview the visitor, often on a Thursday. And so what we really did for this one is we did a full script with read-throughs and all the things, after which we went in and really recorded it like a radio play.
Dan: Yeah, and that really went via a number of iterations as a result of the primary time we performed it for some individuals they usually have been like: we don’t get the joke. We thought it was hilarious. However then we realized that – I feel we performed it a little bit bit too straight. And we rerecorded it the place I used to be a bit extra of a proxy for the viewers in asking – being a bit extra skeptical myself and slowly getting irritated by this character I used to be interviewing, who was like this whole, smug blowhard marketer. And we predict that the end result was rather a lot higher in the long run.
Stephanie: Yeah, which is definitely a very vital content material lesson. That one thing that you just would possibly suppose is de facto humorous, and even actually simply superior, it could simply be you. Simply run it previous some individuals and be like, how does this sound? And so they’ll inform you: “We don’t get it. Is that this really a factor that’s occurring?” And we’re like: “No, clearly we’re not creating touchdown pages to infinity or the Uber for touchdown pages; that’s foolish.” They’re like: “No, it sounds actual.”
Dan: Effectively, that’s it. And it goes to indicate how far off the rails digital advertising generally can get when one thing that’s so absurd might really sound believable to individuals.
One other episode, on a extra critical be aware, that I actually, actually appreciated was my interview with Kevin Lee from Buffer. The place immediately, the tables turned. I overlook what we have been speaking about precisely however I requested him a query and he bought, like, actually quiet. He’s a very considerate man, Kevin, and he’s the type of person who doesn’t say something with out actually considering it via.
And if he doesn’t know the reply, then he’s actually, in true Buffer model, type of clear about it and actually humble. And so he stated one thing like: I don’t know, what do you suppose? And I bought actually quiet as a result of, you realize, I’m the interviewer; I’m not likely used to being requested that. After which immediately, I began type of pouring out my guts to him and it grew to become this forwards and backwards; it was virtually like content material advertising remedy.
Stephanie: Yeah, I feel you guys have been speaking about how do you inform individuals what you do.
Dan: Proper.
Stephanie: And what’s content material market, mainly.
Dan: Yeah, it bought tremendous existential.
Stephanie: Which, as we have been speaking about earlier than, is a spot that we really do wish to take the podcast to. As a result of you realize, we wish to be actionable however on the identical time, the podcast is de facto one of many mediums at Unbounce that we will tackle these existential questions that we possibly can’t actually do on the weblog or we will’t actually do in, say, like a video advertising or another content material type that we now have.
Dan: Yeah, I feel we’re all the time – as entrepreneurs, we’re usually transferring actually shortly; we’re in marketing campaign mode. There isn’t all the time the time to take a step again and mirror on what we do as a career and on the craft of promoting. And I feel that’s an space that we actually take pleasure in exploring. We’re entrepreneurs speaking to entrepreneurs. We’ve a device for entrepreneurs, which helps them with their advertising. It’s all very meta and we predict it is a good discussion board to take a step again to form of share greatest practices, to be open about the place we possibly have made errors, about issues that we’re not fairly positive of but and to have the ability to discuss these issues via with one another in what we hope is a secure area.
Stephanie: Yeah, which really brings up one thing that I addressed earlier that I type of wish to go into a little bit bit extra, is the stats drawback with podcasts. As a result of that’s really one thing that we’re at proper now, is we’re type of evaluating how the podcast is performing as an organization device. And it’s actually arduous if you’re accustomed to podcasts, or if in case you have one your self, you realize what I’m speaking about. As a result of podcasts are virtually unimaginable to trace as a KPI. Like you may get obtain charges; if in case you have superior analytics, you may get obtain charges.
You’ll be able to see what nation they’re from, what machine they’re on however it’s only a obtain. You don’t know in the event that they listened to it. You’ll be able to’t see what number of subscribers you’ve got. So mainly, my rule of thumb can be to only monitor the numbers for the primary couple of days and in the event that they’re normal, I assume that’s what number of subscribers that we now have, which may be very nebulous; it’s not an precise –
Dan: By subscribers on iTunes, proper?
Stephanie: Precisely. So in my head, I’m like, okay, say, the morning of, like two hours after it launches we now have 300 downloads each week. I can assume that at the least 30 persons are downloading this podcast mechanically, which means that they’re a subscriber. However iTunes isn’t telling me this. There’s no stat that claims what number of subscribers you’ve got. So it’s not likely – you’ll be able to’t tag a person listener and you may’t inform in the event that they’ve really listened to the episode; you’ll be able to solely simply see that they’ve really downloaded it onto their machine.
Dan: Yeah, and that’s identical to probably the most high-level KPI: how many individuals are subscribing and listening to your podcast. When you get additional down into the funnel, into like producing leads and even to monitoring conversions down the road, it will get actually, actually dicey. And I’m not saying it’s unimaginable however I feel we’ve decided right here that we’re going to deal with the podcast very a lot as a prime of the funnel discovery channel. And so it truly is about talking to a recent, new viewers; getting them conscious of all these advertising issues that we discuss and, after all, how Unbounce would possibly assist them discover that resolution.
However for us, it’s not a direct conversion channel. And I feel that’s okay. We’re conversion centered entrepreneurs however we’re additionally inbound entrepreneurs who actually belief and imagine in our general technique. And we all know that we now have tons of items of content material: we’ve bought PPC, we’ve bought electronic mail advertising, we’ve bought lead nurturing, we’ve bought rather more conversion centered content material that we create that’s doing that job for us. And in order that frees us as much as deal with the podcast at what we predict a podcast is sweet at, which is simply speaking with individuals, participating them and making these new relationships that hopefully we might then nurture additional down the road.
Stephanie: So we’re type of getting into into this courageous new world of not counting on our electronic mail listing, as we had talked about was a giant factor for us, at lunch. And distribution, attempting to determine the place we have to be posting this to, who we have to get onto the podcast in order that they’ll share it with our viewers – ways like that. However then internally, as properly, now we’re simply attempting to determine if our KPI is consciousness, how can we really transfer the needle on that? So, say, if we’re getting 2,000 downloads on an episode, does that present as a lot worth as, say, 200 hits does on the weblog put up? How rather more engaged is a podcast listener in comparison with a weblog reader?
So we’re actually attempting to make it possible for we’re measuring the podcast in opposition to our consciousness weblog posts as a result of these are the posts which are extra in step with what the podcast objective is, and so we’re going to have a greater likelihood of determining whether or not or not the podcast is offering worth.
Dan: Proper. In that case, we’re evaluating apples to apples, proper? We’re not evaluating a podcast in opposition to one thing like a webinar, which is rather more conversion centric; however to match it in opposition to a bit of consciousness content material that lives on the weblog, for instance, or a visitor put up does make sense. And so we’re attempting to make it possible for we’re nonetheless information pushed and that we’re nonetheless measuring outcomes, however that we’re measuring the precise issues and never getting distracted by: hey, we’re not capable of monitor this to gross sales and conversions. Effectively, that’s not essentially the purpose however it doesn’t imply that we shouldn’t be monitoring it in any respect.
Stephanie: Yeah, as a result of that’s the factor. As a result of there’s all the time this knee-jerk response to be like: oh, in case you can’t monitor one thing definitively, we should always lower it, or it’s in all probability not worthwhile. However when you’ve got one thing that’s purely an consciousness channel, and one thing that’s unable to be tracked precisely like podcast, that’s the place it turns into a little bit bit extra gray and the place, say, we’re type of campaigning to be like: no, we swear that this has worth. We’ve gotten suggestions and we imagine in it. Podcasting blew up final 12 months and so clearly there’s something there. And so it simply comes down to truly figuring it out; easy methods to present that.
Dan: Precisely, yeah. There’s a purpose so many manufacturers are tripping over themselves to promote on podcasts like Serial or This American Life. I heard a movie advert on Serial the opposite week.
Stephanie: Actually?
Dan: So like a significant movement image, Hollywood studio.
Stephanie: Like a trailer?
Dan: Yeah.
Stephanie: Cool.
Dan: Yeah, I feel it was the Coen brothers, the brand new Coen brothers’ film. And I used to be like: holy shit, like that’s getting into –
Stephanie: That’s new.
Dan: Yeah, that’s new. And that’s like, to me, podcast getting into the massive time after they have Hollywood studios promoting. So the worth of a podcast listener from a human standpoint, first, we don’t take that as a right as a result of we notice how worthwhile your time is and the way tenuous – how a lot content material is on the market and the way we wish to be sure to by no means break that belief. However I feel that additionally bears out in enterprise worth, that we’re seeing within the business that the worth of a podcast listener in comparison with, let’s say, a weblog put up reader; in case you evaluate podcast promoting charges to banner advertisements and even native promoting, that there’s an enormous distinction there.
And so we don’t underestimate the worth of this podcast. Identical to the rest; a matter of determining easy methods to measure that in a manner that is smart to the medium.
Stephanie: So together with determining the way in which that we wish to consider it, we’re additionally having discussions on the place we wish to see the podcast going this 12 months. So Dan, would you wish to share some ideas that you just’ve had round the place you’d wish to take the podcast?
Dan: Yeah. I’d love to speak to even broaden up the scope much more when it comes to who we’ve talked to. So we’ve talked to the writers and editors of a few of our favourite advertising blogs; a few of our favourite SaaS blogs particularly. I’d love to speak to all kinds of thought leaders within the company world, within the design world, model entrepreneurs, additionally individuals in very particular industries like regulation and actual property. I wish to know the way they strategy advertising in another way. I simply wish to discuss to as many entrepreneurs as potential to I feel simply broaden the scope of our understanding of issues.
I feel that, like the rest, the advertising, the digital advertising world, it might generally really feel a little bit bit small, a little bit bit like an echo chamber. All people’s studying the identical weblog posts and seeking to the identical stuff. However I feel that there are connections to be drawn to different industries. I feel the world is definitely rather a lot greater than generally a cursory look at like your Twitter feed or your Fb feed would make it appear. And so we actually wish to make connections all through the advertising world to assist entrepreneurs do higher and take a look at new issues that haven’t simply been blogged about over and over.
Stephanie: Yeah, and talking on new issues, too, simply even enjoying with the format a little bit bit is one thing that I’m enthusiastic about. Like this episode is one thing we’ve by no means performed earlier than; simply having an precise dialog and never like an ordinary interview, like really –
Dan: I’d like to speak to you extra.
Stephanie: Yeah. So to any extent further, we’re not having friends. It’s simply gonna be Dan and I.
Dan: Simply – you realize, simply chilling.
Stephanie: Simply capturing, you realize, the stuff. That was me censoring myself for iTunes.
Dan: I used to be gonna say after which I finished myself so I stated simply chilling.
Stephanie: As a result of that’s one thing. Should you swear on iTunes, you’ll have to have an grownup ranking. The extra you realize.
Dan: what? We should always take a look at that. I’m wondering if having an grownup ranking would really improve our listens. Perhaps there’s a sure cache to that.
Stephanie: As a result of individuals can be like, wow, that may be a naughty advertising podcast.
Dan: I really feel like a naughty advertising podcast can be one thing else, however…
Stephanie: Yeah, so like apart from simply an ordinary interview format, having extra chats, extra discussions. One thing I’ve even type of toyed with is having debates or simply actually having extra precise type of documentary model, journalism model, reporting, probably.
Dan: One factor I’d love to do extra of is share our experiences right here at Unbounce. As a result of I feel we’re very cautious of being too self reflective or too self centered, which is I feel why even this episode, speaking about ourselves, seems like a little bit bit bizarre or in opposition to our nature. However you realize, within the final two years since I’ve been right here, our advertising staff has gone from 5 individuals to 35. And there have been so many classes alongside the way in which. There’s been some ache, there have been some triumphs. We’re consistently attempting to enhance on our construction, on our processes. And so I feel that there in all probability are quite a lot of classes that we might share.
And one among our values as an organization is to be clear and beneficiant when it comes to what we share with the world. And I feel there’s a chance on this podcast to do this, as properly. Plus, like we now have all these superb thought leaders inside the firm that we by no means had earlier than. Like we by no means had a PPC specialist, an electronic mail advertising specialist, a CRO – the fifth prime ranked CRO works for our firm, now, Michael Aagaard. So I feel we must be tapping that experience greater than we now have been.
Stephanie: Yeah, and it’s one thing that we toyed a little bit bit at one level after we moved from definitions. We did a little bit, fast Unbounce worker story, which I really actually appreciated and I assumed it was type of an fascinating option to segue into the interview. However we bought some suggestions that it type of appeared a bit extra like filler, once more. So I feel there’s something to be stated from speaking concerning the type of roadblocks and options that we now have skilled as an organization.
As a result of it’s – once more, we get that extra intimate really feel within the interview itself, and it’s one thing that we additionally know intimately which might permit for enjoyable format adjustments. We’ve skilled all these points that persons are writing weblog posts about so we could as properly simply discuss it in an actual state of affairs.
Dan: Yeah, and we additionally wish to know what you guys wish to hear extra of. Like, does that sound like unbearable to you, to listen to us go on about ourselves? Is that one thing that you just’re taken with listening to extra of? Is there anyone particularly you’d like us to have on the podcast? Would you wish to be on the podcast? Tell us as a result of we’re clearly doing this for enterprise worth however, like several good piece of content material advertising, we’re doing this for our viewers, first. And if it doesn’t resonate with you, then there’s simply no level in doing it.
The suggestions that we’ve gotten thus far has been superb. The critiques and the rankings have been nice. We’re so appreciative of all of the downloads each week. However we wish to, like true conversion centered entrepreneurs, we wish to preserve optimizing and preserve enhancing. And so please tell us how we might do higher.
Stephanie: Yeah, so you are able to do that by both emailing us at podcast@unbounce.com. Should you’re not a brilliant huge fan of electronic mail, you’ll be able to tweet at us. I’m @msbeansie, that’s M-S-B-E-A-N-S-I-E.
Dan: I’m @DanJL, D-A-N-J-L.
Stephanie: So electronic mail, Twitter, you’ll be able to – properly, you’ll be able to’t actually cellphone us as a result of we don’t actually have cellphone numbers however yeah, simply –
Dan: Look us up on Skype. There’s quite a lot of Dan Levys however you would discover me.
Stephanie: Should you discover the precise one. Yeah, please attain out to us. We’d love to listen to your suggestions. It’s tremendous vital for us. And like we stated, that is the 12 months that we actually wish to mess around with the format and get quite a lot of new individuals on, so we’d love to listen to what you wish to take heed to.
Dan: Hey, Stephanie?
Stephanie: Sure, Dan?
Dan: Is that your name to motion?
Stephanie: I feel that was my name to motion.
Dan: All proper, then. Play the music. Thanks so –
Stephanie: Thanks for listening.
Stephanie: One, two, three.
Each: Thanks for listening.